Jon Bass’s directorial debut, Carole & Grey, premiered at the 28th Tallinn Black Nights Film Festival. The film was showcased in the special section “Rebel with a Cause”, which highlights innovative, boundary-pushing films that challenge conventional cinematic norms. This section is dedicated to showcasing experimental works that take risks, both in form and message, presenting daring new visions from filmmakers across the globe. Milani Perera has a conversation with the helmer, Jon Bass, about his introduction to filmmaking and the unique cinematic journey in his debut film.

MP: You’ve had a diverse journey in the film industry, starting as an actor. How did that experience shape your approach to directing? Your unique perspective on acting has undoubtedly given you a fascinating insight into filmmaking. Could you share more about this?
JB: Acting definitely gave me a unique perspective on filmmaking. I was fortunate to work on big studio productions like Baywatch and smaller indie films. From that, I learned that large-scale productions often face challenges due to too many voices in the decision-making process, which can sometimes compromise the quality of the final product.

Conversely, smaller films have a closer-knit team focused on the story and quality. When the Hollywood writers’ strike hit, I saw how many projects were stalled indefinitely, and it really disillusioned me with the studio system. This disillusionment led me to take control of my creative process and make something on a smaller budget. That’s how I came to make Carole & Grey, a film that allowed me to be involved in every part of the process from start to end.

MP: You mentioned a small budget – $10,000 – for this film. Did that limitation push you to be more innovative in your approach?
JB: Absolutely. The budget forced me to be resourceful, but I saw it as an opportunity to break free from traditional filmmaking constraints. To be free in our expression, which actually worked in our favour. I wasn’t concerned with making the most beautiful shots or adhering to cinematic norms. It was more important to me that the film was organic and spontaneous, and the limitations allowed for that. We shot the entire movie vertically on an iPhone, which some people may balk at as ‘not real cinema,’ but for me, it was about capturing the raw energy and immediacy of the story in a way that’s accessible and ‘modern.’

MP: Regarding the film’s visual approach, why choose to shoot vertically with an iPhone? It’s a bold choice, especially given the industry’s preference for traditional cinematic formats.
JB: The decision to shoot vertically was intentional. I wanted to create a film that people could watch on their phones in a familiar format. I didn’t expect the film to make it into festivals, but I’m glad I stuck to my vision. The vertical format is about something other than following tradition but finding a medium that works for the story I wanted to tell. This film isn’t concerned with conventional notions of ‘cinematic quality.’ There are moments when shots are out of focus or pixelated, and that’s by design. It’s all part of expressing the chaos and energy of the film, and it adds a layer of authenticity. Plus, it makes the movie more relatable to audiences who are used to watching everything on their phones, primarily through platforms like TikTok.

MP: You’ve described Carole & Grey as a reflection of your ADHD, with rapid shifts in tone. Can you elaborate on how these shifts affect the film’s structure and narrative?
JB: The film’s tone mirrors how my brain works – it’s constantly jumping from one feeling to another. One moment we’re having a serious conversation, and the next there’s humour, followed by moments of excitement or anxiety. The film feels like a whirlwind of different emotions and topics. I wrote 30 scenes, and with a runtime of just 66 minutes, I had the freedom to let the film shift between them quickly. The structure is meant to reflect the chaos and unpredictability of life, especially in a city like New York where everything is always in motion. It was a conscious decision to keep the audience on their toes, just like the characters are navigating their day.

MP: Your film shares similarities with the mumblecore movement, especially its dialogue-driven, character-centric style. Were filmmakers like Lynn Shelton an influence on your work?
JB: Lynn Shelton was a significant influence on me, particularly her use of dialogue and the way she brought out natural, often messy human interactions. I had the privilege of working with her before she passed, and that experience really changed how I view filmmaking. The mumblecore genre, with its emphasis on real, unpolished conversations, was something I really admired. I wanted to capture that raw, natural feel but with a twist. So I added elements of magical realism – with ordinary and extraordinary characters like the shapeshifter, soothsayer, and witch. These characters serve to elevate the grounded, everyday moments and make the world feel more fantastical. It’s a way of blurring the line between what’s real and imagined, which is central to the story.

MP: You’ve also mentioned that the film is set against the backdrop of New York City. How does the city itself play into the themes of the movie?
JB: New York is integral to the film, not just as a backdrop but as a reflection of the characters’ chaotic inner worlds. The city never stops moving, it’s a place where everything happens simultaneously. You’re on a ferry one moment, then on a bike, and before you know it, you’re running down a busy street. It’s the perfect setting for a story about shifting perspectives and emotional highs and lows. The constant movement of New York mirrors the unpredictable flow of thoughts and emotions that the characters and I experience. It’s a city where anything can happen at any time, precisely what I wanted to convey through the film’s unpredictable tone and rapid pace.

MP: The film feels heightened, especially with the magical elements. Is this a metaphor for Grey’s perception of the world, or is it something more universal?
JB: The magical realism isn’t limited to just Grey’s perspective. It’s a reflection of the world through the eyes of everyone in the story – Carole, Grey, and even the people they encounter. I wanted to show that our world can feel surreal and full of possibility, especially in a city like New York where the ordinary and extraordinary coexist. The shapeshifter, the soothsayer, and the witch could appear at any moment; is it real, is it imagined, or a bit of both? It’s not just Grey’s world, it’s everyone’s world, and anyone could encounter magic in their everyday life if they’re open to it. It’s about embracing chaos and the unknown.

MP: Finally, the film’s narrative structure and visual choices are unconventional. Who do you see as the ideal audience for Carole & Grey?
JB: Carole & Grey isn’t a film for everyone, and I’m okay with that. It’s designed for people who are open to a different kind of experience – those who appreciate films that move quickly, feel raw and challenge traditional storytelling. This may not be your film if you’re looking for a standard narrative with polished shots and a predictable plot. But if you enjoy stories that feel fresh, chaotic, and unpredictable, this film speaks directly to that audience. It’s for those who embrace imperfection and like to experience something new and exciting, much like life.